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Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
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Author:  rtpipkin [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
I'm planning on trying un-slotted bridge pins and after looking around at other posts have a couple things I'm not clear on. Could any of you that use these offer some advice? Also, do you know of any videos of the process?

Some things I'd like advice on are, when slotting/notching the bridge for un-slotted pins do you:
1. Pre-slot or notch the bridge before gluing to the top or do all the slotting after?
2. Notch just deep enough for the string to sit with the pin holding it snug in the notch or notch deep enough so the pins are not needed? as with a tailpiece.
3. Notch straight down through the top or roughly the same angle as the taper of the bridge pin?
4. For the heavier strings, notch to the size of the main part of the string or to the size of the wrapping of the string?

Thanks in advance!-Ray
Author:  DannyV [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
My 2 %,

No for #1 but I see no reason why not. I would be inclined to just do it partially though. Finish the fit in place.
Yes for #2 but if I were to pull out the bridge pin after it was strung the string would stay in place.
I pretty much notch straight down but you could do the angle of the taper. I extend the notch around the the hole and follows the angle out to the bridge pin. I finish this with needle files.
I think you pretty much have to notch the size of the wrapping.

I put a bevel on the bottom of the bridge pin and it makes it a little easier for the ball to slip past the bottom end of the pin. I do this with slotted pins on the un slotted side also and tell people using my guitars that the bevel goes to the ball.

What are you using to cut the slot?
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
1. Pre-slot or notch the bridge before gluing to the top or do all the slotting after? After
2. Notch just deep enough for the string to sit with the pin holding it snug in the notch or notch deep enough so the pins are not needed? as with a tailpiece. Notch just deep enough so that the pin is able to go back just as deep as before the string is in place. But you want the pin to make good contact against the string.
 3. Notch straight down through the top or roughly the same angle as the taper of the bridge pin? Taper
4. For the heavier strings, notch to the size of the main part of the string or to the size of the wrapping of the string? Wrapping.
Author:  rtpipkin [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Thanks guys, this helps a lot.

DannyV wrote:
What are you using to cut the slot?
I haven't prepared them yet, but plan on fashioning a couple sizes of little saws today based on stuff I've seen on the internet.(e.g. frets.com, YouTube-six guns guitars)I thought about using a Dremel but I have a hard time controlling that sometimes.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
I notch after the bridge is glued, holes drilled and countersunk and tapered and bridge pins fitted.

Straight down, same width as the ball end windings and deep enough that the pin fits as before and is just there for insurance.

Probably best to do by hand at first but for the last few years I have used a jigsaw per Sylvan Wells and Mario. Works great and to me the control is actually better than by hand. Scary at first. Widen with files.

There is a certain number fine cut Bosch blade that works very well and when I am in the shop I'll check that and post. You can use it in the jigsaw or in a wooden handle.

I think there are guys that notch before gluing and I am sure that they have found a way to make that work just fine.

I messed around with a Dremel on a base on scrap wood but it didn't work too well for me so I never tried it on a real bridge.
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
If using a jig saw stuff a towel in the sound hole and save your hearing and your neighbor's sanity.....
Author:  DannyV [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Hesh wrote:
If using a jig saw stuff a towel in the sound hole and save your hearing and your neighbor's sanity.....

Any other tips on using the jigsaw blade IN the jigsaw would be most welcome. I use jigsaw blades but put the in wooden handles and do it by hand. Any chance I have to use a power tool I like to. Some tasks I find somewhat therapeutic to do by hand. This isn't one of them.
Author:  rtpipkin [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Terence Kennedy wrote:
There is a certain number fine cut Bosch blade that works very well and when I am in the shop I'll check that and post.


Yeah the jigsaw sounds interesting, I'll play around with some scrap. Please post the blade info if you think of it. Thanks!
Author:  Tim L [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
I fit the pins and slot the bridge after it is glued on the guitar. I then ramp the slots to cut down on the string making any sharp bends coming out of the hole. That may be the same thing Danny V was saying in his first post. The string should make contact with both the pin and the bridge.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
DannyV wrote:
I put a bevel on the bottom of the bridge pin and it makes it a little easier for the ball to slip past the bottom end of the pin.


Grest idea!

I do the same as most of the rest. I also like to cut a V groove with a sharp chisel where the string comes out at the top of the bridge, tapering it towards the saddle a little. I think it looks nice. It's important to cut them in proportion to the string size.

I think I've finally got enough nerve to try the jigsaw!
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
pat macaluso wrote:
DannyV wrote:
I put a bevel on the bottom of the bridge pin and it makes it a little easier for the ball to slip past the bottom end of the pin.


Grest idea!

I do the same as most of the rest. I also like to cut a V groove with a sharp chisel where the string comes out at the top of the bridge, tapering it towards the saddle a little. I think it looks nice. It's important to cut them in proportion to the string size.

I think I've finally got enough nerve to try the jigsaw!


Pat that's called "string ramps" in the trade and a useful club to have in the bag. [:Y:] It's very useful when attempting to get a client some more life from an inexpensive guitar where a neck reset may be needed but is not economically feasible for the owner. String ramps can restore a decent break angle over the saddle when a saddle has to be taken way down because of poor neck angle.
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
DannyV wrote:
Hesh wrote:
If using a jig saw stuff a towel in the sound hole and save your hearing and your neighbor's sanity.....

Any other tips on using the jigsaw blade IN the jigsaw would be most welcome. I use jigsaw blades but put the in wooden handles and do it by hand. Any chance I have to use a power tool I like to. Some tasks I find somewhat therapeutic to do by hand. This isn't one of them.


No help here Danny since we still slot bridge, tops, and bridge plates by hand. Since most everything that we work on is already finished although I have no doubt that the slotting can be done safely with a jig saw but I prefer to keep doing it by hand and enjoy the process too.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
The blade I use is the Bosch T101AO. I have one in a wood handle and one in the saw. I usually notch the starting point by hand and cut the notch with the saw. You may have to file a little off the back of the blade to narrow it slightly. Put a little masking tape on top of the bridge to protect it from the base of the saw and protect the top. With practice you can widen the slot a bit by manipulating the saw. fine tune with a file. Cuts seem cleaner than when I did them by hand.

I made some rough bridges out of scrap and clamped them in the vice and practiced.

It is surprising how well you can control it but it is still a little violent and scary. Probably 40 guitars, no accidents so far.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
I do the same as Terry; it's really easy with a jigsaw. Use a fine tooth (20tpi or so) wood cutting blade to minimize splinteing. The hardest part is judging by sight how to get the cut well centered. Start on the 6th string so if you misjudge you'll have more room to compensate and still get a good fit. By the time you get to the 1st string you'll have a good feel for it and know exactly how to go about getting the cut well centered.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
I have been using unslotted pins for awhile now. I was using a jigsaw blade and mini file to make the slot for the string. I have recently bought a set of these from StewMac.

I haven't tried them yet but they look like they ought to be dandy's
Author:  RustySP [ Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Robbie O'Brien's Online Acoustic Guitar Building Course
Chapter 15, The Bridge
Lesson 1, Bridge Pin Holes.
He uses 3 degree slotted pins but turns them backwards except for the 6th string. ( Chapt.15, lesson 3, installing strings)
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
RustySP wrote:
Robbie O'Brien's Online Acoustic Guitar Building Course
Chapter 15, The Bridge
Lesson 1, Bridge Pin Holes.
He uses 3 degree slotted pins but turns them backwards except for the 6th string. ( Chapt.15, lesson 3, installing strings)


+1 on three degree pins.

Something to be aware of: Turning slotted pins around works but you have to be absolutely sure that whomever will be the steward of the instrument has a full understanding of what it means to use unslotted pins. Should someone else string up the instrument and orient the slots in the pins in the conventional direction the now slotted bridge plate combined with a slotted pin creates an opening for the string ball to work it's way upward damaging the bridge plate. We've seen this happen and it's not all that uncommon either.

Folks such as me who provide our instruments with unslotted pins will talk about this in the owner's manual and go over it with the buyer as a hedge against future misunderstandings and damage. In my case I provide 3 degree unslotted pins and strongly encourage any client to see me if they want to replace pins because slotted pins can damage the bridge plate once it's slotted.
Author:  RustySP [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Absolutely right Hesh and I'm planning on giving my knucklehead Son this info when he receives his axe from his old man.
Hesh, where do you get 3 degree unslotted pins?
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
I have occasionally pondered the idea of gluing a "spline" into the back of the bridge pin hole that would register with the slot. This would force the end user to install the slotted pins backwards (also helpful if you cut an angle on the end of the pin, to help it always face the right direction). It could be as simple as waxing the pin and making a small spline to fit the slot. Then push the pin in and wick in a tiny bit of CA. Or, one could cut a slot in the back of the bridge pin hole and glue in a spline, then fit it to the pin. . .

I'm fully willing to accept that this is a bad idea for reasons I have not thought of yet, so let's hear them. . .
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
RustySP wrote:
Absolutely right Hesh and I'm planning on giving my knucklehead Son this info when he receives his axe from his old man.
Hesh, where do you get 3 degree unslotted pins?


Hey Rusty - You have the bases all covered and good on ya too!

Just as important I wanted to also tell you that your son has a heck of a great old man who made a new ax for him!!!! [clap] [clap] [clap] The only thing my dad ever gave me was a typewriter.... a stinkin typewriter mind you and I was a 9 year old kid who played baseball, football, and dreamed of what the little girls in my class might look like in their 20's and this guy give me a typewriter.... :? :D

Seriously I was 9 and it was just before Christmas and I had a Fender Mustange and wanted a new AMP. One day a big, brown cardboard box appeared in my Mom's closet.... and it was two weeks before Christmas... I was sure it was my new amp. A couple of days later I could not stand it anymore and took a tape measure to the box in my Mom's closet and sure enough the box was big enough for the amp that I wanted....

Now I was absolutely sure.... that it was my new amp. On Christmas morning I was excited to open the box to get my new amp so that I could be louder than Steve, my drummer.... Low and behold it was a Smith Corona typewriter.... I tried to act like I liked it.... :? But never used it and in a few month my Dad took it to his office and it was his from then on and I never saw the thing again...

So good on ya Rusty for giving a gift that I am sure your son will actually want and enjoy and it being from you and all will likely create far better memories than my memories of a typewriter.... :? :D True story by the way and yeah, yeah I know I should have been grateful that I got anything but a typewriter mind you.... :D
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Bryan Bear wrote:
I have occasionally pondered the idea of gluing a "spline" into the back of the bridge pin hole that would register with the slot. This would force the end user to install the slotted pins backwards (also helpful if you cut an angle on the end of the pin, to help it always face the right direction). It could be as simple as waxing the pin and making a small spline to fit the slot. Then push the pin in and wick in a tiny bit of CA. Or, one could cut a slot in the back of the bridge pin hole and glue in a spline, then fit it to the pin. . .

I'm fully willing to accept that this is a bad idea for reasons I have not thought of yet, so let's hear them. . .


Bryan no plans to be critical here and I was going to ask if those are BRW "tone splines?" :D

Again not being critical but perhaps keep in mind that when our creations leave our shops we may not have any say over who may work on it in the future. Anything unconventonal and some mouth breather such as I in a third floor shop in a busy college town may look at it and say what the heck, time to cut those puppies off.... :D

Kindding of course, partly.... but the further we stray from convention the less likely it will be that others understand our original intent and would be willing to preserve it. Just a thought but NOT being critical!!! :D
Author:  Dave Rickard [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Hesh wrote:
.... but the further we stray from convention the less likely it will be that others understand our original intent and would be willing to preserve it. Just a thought but NOT being critical!!! :D


This reminds me of a dread I built with a wedge body.
People would play it a comment on how comfortable it is.
Then I'd show them that the bass side was thinner than the treble side, then they'd turn up their noses and ask why I would do something like that.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Hesh, I invited criticism on the idea. I take your point and agree. I suspect, if this showed up in your shop, you would know why it was done (remember the pins would only fit in backwards). If it showed up in a lesser shop and they undid it, I suppose there would be no harm. Obviously, the same rules would apply about instructing the original recipient of the proper way to install the pins. Hopefully, the next owner would be told about it as it changed hands. That said: I bought my first car a 1974 Cutlass Supreme from my brother when I was 15. One day I was working on it and whatever I needed to do required removing the battery altogether. When I was putting it all back together, the battery cables would not reach. No mater what I did, how I turned the battery or what I did with the cables, they just would not reach. I don't know how long I sat out there puzzlinig over the fact that I had just taken it out that afternoon and it all fit before I started. Finally, my brother came home and asked what I was doing. I explained the problem; he laughed. He told me the red cable was the negative cable. I told him he was nuts, everybody knows the black is the negative terminal. We went back and forth a few times before I understood what he was saying. From the factory, both battery cables were black and the length and orientation of them would only allow the cables to reach the proper terminal. At some point he needed to replace the negative terminal; unfortunately, the auto parts store only had a red one in the length he needed. What did he care if the colors were reversed, it only fit in one way right. . . Now you would have thought he would have mentioned this to the next owner (or fixed it when he had the chance) especially since the next owner slept right down the hall from him! I'm glad I never needed to jump start someone.

I figured this would be a way to keep some knucklehead from putting them in slot forward when they buy new (slotted) pins to replace the unslotted ones that came with it. They would have seen that the slots on the last set keyed into the splines when they removed them and new pins would not fit with the slot forward. Just a thought. . .
Author:  RustySP [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
I don't have an extra pin at the moment, but when I do I think I'll try the baking soda and CA glue trick in the slot, see how that works. We don't need no stinkin slots.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advice on Installing Un-slotted bridge pins
Why do you guys like 3 degree pins?
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